I still don't think he was worthy of a #1 pick but thats old news from our defunct GM Jerry Reese. BTW I thought it hilarious to read that JR turned down an interview to be GM of the Oakland Raiders . That dude should be happy with any new job after he has crippled our organizations for years.
So back to Engram. I have bashed him and maybe it was due to the high pick
But I have to say he has been mighty impressive when he isn't ignored in the offense. The dude has some major wheels and I like how he has been contributing to the offense lately. Maybe there is some hope?
Feels like we don't have enough "balls" to go around to Engram, Barkley, OBJ? I am hopeful he can get better and become a key part of the offense.
He seems to play better without OBJ in the lineup. Maybe the Giants screwed themselves with too many weapons? Is that even possible? I think Eli tries to force OBJ the ball a lot too.
Agree on the OBJ issue. Its a blessing and curse having OBJ...!!! But I got to believe we can get this offense moving once we fix the OL
I won't go into the Eli thing as that a topic beaten to death but whoever is the QB, has weapons
And Engram has to be used more. OBJ drawing the safety coverage.....Barkley drawing LB attention gives Shurmur an opportunity to design plays just for Engram . Ertz gets 10 balls a game and we need to use our other #1 pick on O in Engram more.... As long as he can continue to hold onto the ball
He seems to play better without OBJ in the lineup. Maybe the Giants screwed themselves with too many weapons? Is that even possible? I think Eli tries to force OBJ the ball a lot too.
Yes Eli does force the ball to Odell way too much. He's got a bad case of tunnel vision for Odell. But I don't think Odell being on the field impacts Engram. Engram needs something called "consistency". That's something he's been lacking these last two seasons. One week he can make 12 catches. Next week he's dropping 3-4 easily catch-able balls.
"Daniel Jones looks like the actor they'd cast to play Eli Manning in a movie about Peyton Manning's life."
In his last 7 games without OBJ playing, Engram has 531 yards from scrimmage (receiving and rushing). Over a 16 game season, that would project to over 1,200 yards. I think it's fair to say Engram has benefited from OBJ being out.
I won't be surprised in they try to trade Odell after the season. But Shurmur may want one more crack at making the trio of Barkley/OBJ/Engram work in 2019. It won't be enough for Odell to have a big year in 2019. He has to prove that he can play 16 games, and the offense has to be able to function at a high level. Otherwise, he may not be worth keeping at that price. If he gets injured again in 2019 and misses more than a game or two, he's as good as gone imo.
In his last 7 games without OBJ playing, Engram has 531 yards from scrimmage (receiving and rushing). Over a 16 game season, that would project to over 1,200 yards. I think it's fair to say Engram has benefited from OBJ being out.
I won't be surprised in they try to trade Odell after the season. But Shurmur may want one more crack at making the trio of Barkley/OBJ/Engram work in 2019. It won't be enough for Odell to have a big year in 2019. He has to prove that he can play 16 games, and the offense has to be able to function at a high level. Otherwise, he may not be worth keeping at that price. If he gets injured again in 2019 and misses more than a game or two, he's as good as gone imo.
I would of liked to see Engram and Odell play more together, but it seems one is always hurt like Engram was with the hamstring and now Odell with the quad. The short time they did play together Engram couldn't catch the damn ball and now he looks like what some were expecting when he was drafted. Don't know if its a confidence thing or a Eli being accurate things with Engram. But if Odell and Engram can both play while there are "in the zone", that's something I would like to see.
"Daniel Jones looks like the actor they'd cast to play Eli Manning in a movie about Peyton Manning's life."
"If you have a hostile attitude towards the world, it will treat you the same way." IF you are always whining, expressing yourdissatisfaction with the world, there will be more reasons for you to be dissatisfied. If your attitude toward the world is predominantly negative, then the world will be a terrible place to live... the opposite of course is also true. A positive attitude is the most natural way of changing your life for the future. YOU REALLY DO GET WHAT YOU CHOOSE...
"If you have a hostile attitude towards the world, it will treat you the same way." IF you are always whining, expressing yourdissatisfaction with the world, there will be more reasons for you to be dissatisfied. If your attitude toward the world is predominantly negative, then the world will be a terrible place to live... the opposite of course is also true. A positive attitude is the most natural way of changing your life for the future. YOU REALLY DO GET WHAT YOU CHOOSE...
Why do teams draft TEs that can run like Engram. Most of the times they send them up the seem. It splits the safties if it’s a 2 deep and they get behind the linebackers. Giants never do that. And if they did Eli missed it. Once you get a few of those plays in a game that’s an success it really takes away heavy blitz packages because you have to account for the TE. Patriots did it a ton with Gronk. If he ran free up the seem they started playing him off and Brady would just get it out to him quickly for several yard gains. Giants never could use Engram correctly. If they did and feature the offense around him. Tate and Shepherd would benefit greatly from it
Why do teams draft TEs that can run like Engram. Most of the times they send them up the seem. It splits the safties if it’s a 2 deep and they get behind the linebackers. Giants never do that. And if they did Eli missed it. Once you get a few of those plays in a game that’s an success it really takes away heavy blitz packages because you have to account for the TE. Patriots did it a ton with Gronk. If he ran free up the seem they started playing him off and Brady would just get it out to him quickly for several yard gains. Giants never could use Engram correctly. If they did and feature the offense around him. Tate and Shepherd would benefit greatly from it
Only thing I would add to this is Engram has to improve in his release portion of his route, to both press and collision from 2nd tier defenders. You're right the Giants don't call it as much, but like Cosell has said if you get coaches in a room with truth serum they will often tell you why they dont run XYZ and usually the answer is a pretty good one (can be many too).
So lets envision an example: 3x1 set where Engram is the Y or 3rd WR in closest to the LOS. Lets say he is Y-Off where he is off the line in a 2 point stance, and lets say the defense is running a 2-high safety look pre-snap that will morph into some Quarters check to that side, but one where the Middle of the Field remains Open (MOFO). In that case the route we are talking about is a Divide where he will angle into the middle of MOFO, one of the soft spots in the "zone". The biggest issue on tape is 0-7 yards as Engram's get off, release technique, and ability to play through contact have lacked consistency. Yes the odds are very high its a LBer who will be "collisioning" him, and even if its just a re route Engram's speed usually does not build up to the 3rd-5th stride. This is a very important characteristic, not all speed is the same. Last year the Giants were able to create some of those free releases by using PA, so that the 2nd tier (if they have a gap assigned to them), will be delayed in their collision of the WR.
Another "reason" why this play was not seen as much was, sadly, teams playing Tampa 2 coverage particularly early in the season. This coverage puts an athletic MLB on the #3 and he carries the vertical to help defend the MOFO aspect of Cover 2. The game I am thinking of is the Saints Game, where this coverage had a very deadly effect for parts of the game. This is not a "shut down" coverage, but w/Engram's speed coming later in the down, teams have found it collision and carry from larger sized defenders as a way to nullify his ability to separate.
This is a long winded way of saying(and I went through this on a recent podcast), its not simply that EE is being used "incorrectly". I did write an article saying I think he could play more of a H-Back/Move TE where from the backfield in bizarro 2 back sets I think he could gain this separation more easily and essentially be given more space to get to that 4th and 5th stride more often. I think he could be a more effective blocker from there (always have to tie EVERYTHING to the run side of the house). But that change is not seamless and would require a buy in from many parties involved. As a TE, improvement in his fundamentals will allow coaches to expand where they can trust him to win, and where the QB can trust to find him.
Why do teams draft TEs that can run like Engram. Most of the times they send them up the seem. It splits the safties if it’s a 2 deep and they get behind the linebackers. Giants never do that. And if they did Eli missed it. Once you get a few of those plays in a game that’s an success it really takes away heavy blitz packages because you have to account for the TE. Patriots did it a ton with Gronk. If he ran free up the seem they started playing him off and Brady would just get it out to him quickly for several yard gains. Giants never could use Engram correctly. If they did and feature the offense around him. Tate and Shepherd would benefit greatly from it
Only thing I would add to this is Engram has to improve in his release portion of his route, to both press and collision from 2nd tier defenders. You're right the Giants don't call it as much, but like Cosell has said if you get coaches in a room with truth serum they will often tell you why they dont run XYZ and usually the answer is a pretty good one (can be many too).
So lets envision an example: 3x1 set where Engram is the Y or 3rd WR in closest to the LOS. Lets say he is Y-Off where he is off the line in a 2 point stance, and lets say the defense is running a 2-high safety look pre-snap that will morph into some Quarters check to that side, but one where the Middle of the Field remains Open (MOFO). In that case the route we are talking about is a Divide where he will angle into the middle of MOFO, one of the soft spots in the "zone". The biggest issue on tape is 0-7 yards as Engram's get off, release technique, and ability to play through contact have lacked consistency. Yes the odds are very high its a LBer who will be "collisioning" him, and even if its just a re route Engram's speed usually does not build up to the 3rd-5th stride. This is a very important characteristic, not all speed is the same. Last year the Giants were able to create some of those free releases by using PA, so that the 2nd tier (if they have a gap assigned to them), will be delayed in their collision of the WR.
Another "reason" why this play was not seen as much was, sadly, teams playing Tampa 2 coverage particularly early in the season. This coverage puts an athletic MLB on the #3 and he carries the vertical to help defend the MOFO aspect of Cover 2. The game I am thinking of is the Saints Game, where this coverage had a very deadly effect for parts of the game. This is not a "shut down" coverage, but w/Engram's speed coming later in the down, teams have found it collision and carry from larger sized defenders as a way to nullify his ability to separate.
This is a long winded way of saying(and I went through this on a recent podcast), its not simply that EE is being used "incorrectly". I did write an article saying I think he could play more of a H-Back/Move TE where from the backfield in bizarro 2 back sets I think he could gain this separation more easily and essentially be given more space to get to that 4th and 5th stride more often. I think he could be a more effective blocker from there (always have to tie EVERYTHING to the run side of the house). But that change is not seamless and would require a buy in from many parties involved. As a TE, improvement in his fundamentals will allow coaches to expand where they can trust him to win, and where the QB can trust to find him.
PS: The NO game is an example of Tampa 2 giving the Giants trouble, BUT NOT one where EE was in the game/was the culprit(mistake by me)
Post by goldenratio on Jul 25, 2019 11:24:33 GMT -5
"If you have a hostile attitude towards the world, it will treat you the same way." IF you are always whining, expressing yourdissatisfaction with the world, there will be more reasons for you to be dissatisfied. If your attitude toward the world is predominantly negative, then the world will be a terrible place to live... the opposite of course is also true. A positive attitude is the most natural way of changing your life for the future. YOU REALLY DO GET WHAT YOU CHOOSE...
80 for 1200. Love to see that. In fact if that happens, the Giants will likely be competing for a playoff spot especially if the defense is able to get off the field.
Post by danieljonesfan on Jul 25, 2019 22:55:33 GMT -5
Engram has a ton of talent he is best in the slot were he can work against LB and S.. the problem is the Giants have a abundance of those type of players.. One thing the coaches need to stop doing is playing him inline and asking him to block, it makes no sense, he is just to small to play inside he doesn’t have the size
bronxpinstripes: Danny Dimes solved the fumbling problem against the Packers by throwing 3 INTs instead.
Dec 2, 2019 11:05:46 GMT -5
rodney27: You're right about the fumbling problem, tl65taog. I just don't think it can be fixed. He had in preseason, has it at a record pace now, and had the same problem at Duke. If he hasn't fixed it in all that time...I just don't know if he can.
Nov 29, 2019 8:26:07 GMT -5
tl65taog: yes the fumbling problem has to be fixed, but you have to be fair about it
Nov 26, 2019 0:40:25 GMT -5
homerj45: Any other members go thru prostate cancer ?
Nov 8, 2019 10:04:09 GMT -5
soullessnight: welcome to the board.
Sept 2, 2019 14:33:34 GMT -5
GordonG: Have fun and be safe
Jun 22, 2019 13:34:10 GMT -5
lastnamejaded: Summer is here! Who's vacationing and where? I'll be doing a southern tour visiting Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee and Arkansas, hiking trails in every state.
Jun 10, 2019 11:01:04 GMT -5
gmenfan: Jeez - the original post was about Zeke Elliott.
May 23, 2019 14:39:51 GMT -5
homerj45: Normally I would ignore a post with arrived to camp with a helicopter but,,,,back at ya,,,
Feb 14, 2019 19:09:22 GMT -5
lastnamejaded: I said it all along, Engram just needed time to mentally come back from the injury.
Dec 30, 2018 15:07:40 GMT -5
unbiasednygiantsfan: Personal invite to new FB group “Unbiased NY Giants Fanbase”. We are only inviting fans that are interested in intelligent discussions and debates minus the insults. Here is the link: www.facebook.com/groups/UnbiasedNYGiantsfanbase/
Dec 5, 2018 17:07:49 GMT -5
freide: As buts go I would put flowers in the Ron Dayne's class.
Oct 12, 2018 15:29:51 GMT -5
uther99: The Oline is just too bad to compete. If you max protect, how many WRs go out, 2? That's 2 WRs against 7 defenders, good luck.
Oct 2, 2018 15:44:12 GMT -5
EddieNYG: homerj, Glad you and your family are safe. Best of luck getting back to your home!
Sept 19, 2018 11:41:21 GMT -5
homerj45: Thanks to those both for the well wishes from my recent mri and my evacuation from my home in New Bern NC,,Florence was and still is quite a nightmare and I immediately evacuated to Raleigh NC with spouse and pets and have no way home at present.
Sept 17, 2018 17:29:50 GMT -5